The Plot Thickens Discussion ~ View topic

Time, as we recognize it, is a artifical construct that we have created in our attempt to move though our lives in an ordered, organized, and shared manner. It is universal to us all - we all recognize and use the same units of measure (days, hours, weeks, years...) no matter our physical location. Yet time is fluid and our application of the measure is dependant on our physical location. So, with the concept of location in mind, how do you think the concepts and theories in this article may be validated or disputed? Keep in mind, there is the possiblity of multiple instances of the same time running at once - i.e. parallel universes - and think about how the clarifies or complicates the ideas in this essay.

I have a question with the essay that doesn't have to do with time-travel per se: Salazar Slytherin just doesn't seem to be evil enough to Lord Voldemort. Granted, Slytherin was far from a nice guy — not getting along with the other founders of Hogwarts, his "pure blood" obsession, and setting up that Chamber of Secrets. But he is not the pure embodiment of "he who cannot be named." I don't see LV could be sent back in time and change enough — wouldn't he just try to take over the wizarding world and not even cooperate in establishing Hogwarts?

Hi. You have hit on a great theme - one of my favs - choice! While we can speculate that LV could go back in time and effect some leve of change (as we saw Harry and Hermione do in PoA), the real quesiton is what degee of change is possible given the fact that Slytherin has the ability to choose what he does despite of LV's influence. For all we know, LV did just this and all that we are reading is a result of his attempt to effect change. Ugh, time - slipery topic in my mind. Shocked

Yes, I guess LV could see "the error of his ways" and try to change but not succeed in going all the way from the "dark side."

Joined: 19 Mar 2005 Posts: 241 Location: Waiting for snow

I really enjoyed this essay. I think the idea of location as part of the timeline is interesting. It also made me think of Snape's memory in the pensieve. In essence, by using a penseive you also time-travel (in memories) and you face the bias and location of the person who the memory belongs to. I'm thinking of the fact that James' memory of the incident with Snape would have been quite different, much like a parallel timeline. Basically, what I mean is that location in the timeline is not only a "choice" but also can be influenced by outstanding circumstances.

I think the Ourobourous Worm theory is fascinating, but might leave the reader disapointed. After all, to have the build up for seven books of a final showdown between Harry and Voldemort end or perhaps even never happen because Voldemort disappears into the past would be a let down. While it would be nice if Harry didn't have to kill Voldemort (which I don't think he will) we (and Harry) will need some closure to the end of Voldemort.

Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 11

i agree with prudens futuri it would be sort of a dud if voldemort just ran away... but think if harry sent him back. it would also be a dud if voldemort just flat out died, hes a little to powerfull in my opinion and im not sure anyone on the good side has enough hate to perform a deadly curse. my theory is that harry will somehow send him through the veil, which could be time... but on another theory involving the ouroboros worm, based off of it. if voldemort is sent back in time somehow what about nagani... maybe when he is sent back his mind is in nagani, and both are sent back. think about this... what if nagani is a baby basilisk? and when salazar makes the chamber its for nagani? is that why the venom is so potent when aurthur getts bitten? maybe nagani hasnt fully developed (in an adolescent stage) and therefore couldnt kill aurthur, but later could have killed harry as it was fully developed.

Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 12

I would ask this: what is Nagini? Is it his familiar? His assistant? His pet? His snake wife? A magical spell or time travel experiment result? If you killed Nagini could you vanquish or weaken LV?

I liked this essay and know that no one knows the answer to these questions --- yet.

Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 11

Thanks Mugglehart, i do want to add to your reply though... i think that naganis venom is very significant, as it was able to keep voldemort alive (somewhat). but i think we should look into the resoning behind nagani biting aurthur. why was voldemort attacking him? i think that if nagani is a basilisk that we should pay attention to the venom? and coould the attack on aurthur have something to do with malfoy? or is it a connection harry has with the weasly family? could it have something to do with ms weasly and the boggart?

Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 6

I think that it is a verry possible theory. After all, Hagrid said in book 1 that LV didn't have enough human left in him do die. Wouldn't this still be true? And even though Salazar Slytherin doesn't seem to be as evil as LV, that doesn't mean he isn't the same person. In book 3 Harry and Hermione went back in time and did exactly what they had to to make sure things happened like they were supposed too. Perhaps LV will land in the Middle Ages and realize that he must assume the identity of Salazar Slytherin to ensure that things happen the way they are intended to, thus ensuring his survival as well as his ascension into power.

Joined: 30 May 2005 Posts: 11

good point potionmaster, but i think perhaps a more plausible theory is that in the final duel pehaps voldemort is hit by a memorry charm (perhaps one of lockharts?)... then sent back by the ministry to protect the wizarding world. i think that would be quit odd if jk at the very last climax just kill him off

Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 6

That's definitely possible. a memory charm is probably something harry can do easily, so its more plausible than him pulling off something complicated, like the Killing Curse. Its also more interesting than simply making him kick the bucket. Wink

Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 3

If as you say Lord Voldemort was a capricorn, that makes him related to goats. JKR repeatedly mentions goats, such as the instance in which Dumbledore's brother experimented on them. What does that say about Aberforth?

Also if constellations are so important to the series and centaurs read the wars to come in the sky what about the astronomy teacher? Professor Sinstra's name is suspicious, it means "left" in latin, as in left handed. However in the past left has signified evil (they made left handed students write with their right hands even!). In english the word for left in latin is translated as evil, as in the word sinister. What does this say about Professor Sinistra?
(I don't think she is that important, but why such an obvious reference in her name?)

Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 4 Location: HULL U.K.

Potionmaster

i think this situation is changing all the time. Was it Dumbledore who said that every time LV invaded Harry's mind he extracted a little bit of 'humaness'? On this basis,by the time we get to the end of Book 7 and the denoument LV could easily be half-human or more. And wasn't there a twinkle in Dumbledore's eye when Harry told him this? [can't remember which book but it did impress itself on my mind] Under these circumstances LV can die like any other human. On this issue I am of the opinion that in killing LV HP will himself be killed. As has been said, they are but two sides of the same coin and neither can exist without the other In literary terms too, it would provide a neat solution to the authoress. Don't forget that two other famous characters from fiction were killed off by their creators [Sherlock Holmes and James Bond] but because of public outrage, were forced to revive them

Turning now to time i have thought about this long and hard and I ask myself one question. If our world/galaxy did not exist would time remain? I say yes. Time is part of the Laws of Physics and, as such, is a palpable force, much like gravity and magnetism. Because of the planetary rotation we divide time into managable divisions. [days, hours, minutes etc.] Therefore it cannot be stopped. Some day we may be able to travel through time but the basic force will remain. This is why there is a belief that space travellers, after a long voyage, would arrive back on Earth in a different time period.. Likewise, we can overcome gravity and neutralise magnetism but as natural forces, they will remain. Any alteration must be very localised. I cannot see gravity being reversed over the whole Earth
Finally, if we do go back in time, as Hermoine and Harry did in PoA, when they arrived back at their starting point they would have no knowlrdge whatsoever of what lay ahead. That's my theory anyway.
Please feel free to blow it to peices Wink

Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 56 Location: Diagon Alley

I think she'll use time in relation to Voldemort, but since it's such a tricky concept, it will be used sparingly. Time turning is in use and accessible in these books. In PoA, they were a matter of routine. Hermione gets to use them to go to three classes simultaneously. The ministry had a whole collection of them and were studying time.

Voldemort may have already made use of it. We now know his immortality quest is connected to the horcrux, which broken down.. Hora=hour. Crux means cross. The horcruxes are an hour cross?

The one horcrux we have seen, the diary, preserved a 50 year old memory. That was a time travel of sorts, that nearly allowed the sixteen year old Tom Riddle to reappear in the future, 50 years later. If he had succeeded, he would have broken through the barrier. and would have been much like those space travellers mentioned above.

But rather than Voldemort going backwards..the reverse may be true. Just like Riddle used Ginny, via the memory/horcrux diary and nearly jumped ahead 50 years.. couldn't Salazar have done the same?